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Jimit
Joined:
31-05-2002
Messages: 289
from winchester
 OFF-Line
|  New Message Posted!2007-02-12 15:51
Just to show that there are charlatans in science as well: a long article about the pseudo nutritionist Gillian McKeith who appears on Channel 4 and the ways that she can be shown to be a complete fraud by investigative journalists and simple research. The Snake Oil Salesman/woman is alive and well and still selling to the gullible and ill-informed.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/food/Story/0,,2011095,00.html
Jim.
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karloff
Joined:
20-10-2006
Messages: 605
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2007-02-12 12:47
Hi All
I am keen on Popper's view particularly his call for
"a clear demarcation between good science, in which theories are constantly challenged, and what he called “pseudo sciences” which couldn't be tested. His debunking of such ideologies led some to describe him as the “murderer of Freud and Marx”.
A point some contributors to this forum should pay attention to!
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waterbouy
Joined:
22-11-2006
Messages: 514
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2007-02-11 18:44
I've had a read and will definately have a listen when time permits Andy, looks very interesting! Nice to see you showing an interest down here.
Cheers
mike 
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Aluta
Joined:
06-04-2002
Messages: 1534
from PA, USA
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2007-02-10 15:20
Seems no one knows quite what to say after reading that one, Andy. Or else they're a bit intimidated by your presence. 
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Andy B
Joined:
13-02-2001
Messages: 7042
from Surrey, UK
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2007-02-09 22:04
Melvyn Bragg's In Our Time was about Karl Popper this week, very interesting:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/inourtime_20070208.shtml
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Kieren
Joined:
06-11-2005
Messages: 275
from Sherborne, Dorset
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2007-02-09 16:50
Quote:
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On 2007-02-08 21:04, mithra wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-02-08 17:13, Kieren wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-02-08 12:51, mithra wrote:
As you clearly want to get rid of any scientific or rational information forthcoming then perhaps you should request that the moderators zap it and that Andy bans us?
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PLEASE! Then we can get back to what this forum is about so called 'alternative' theories.
[/quote]
According to your lot ours ARE the alternative theories! Mithra
[/quote]
Hence why I put the word in quotes
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mithra
Joined:
27-06-2006
Messages: 562
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2007-02-09 15:43
On 2007-02-09 07:50, celticpilgrim wrote:
''I havn't been on this forum very long at all......but in case you havn't worked it out yet, you will simply not win or earn the trust and respect of those you seem so willing to contend with.......demands for, "where are the proofs",''
You obviously didn't realize that I'm NOT trying to win or earn the trust and respect of those I contend with then? Nor have they tried to win or earn MY trust and respect!
In short, I don't care a flying fig what they think of me......anymore than THEY care a flying fig of what I think of them!
And if you think that people who believe in half human-half lizard shape shifters, that the Sun has life and the same temperature as Earth, that inanimate objects are beings with the same set of mind as humans.....and so on - are statements worthy of approval then that's entirely your prerogative but I don't. And, as it's a forum, I and others, are quite a liberty to say so!
You have also entirely missed the number of people and postings which I entirely agree with, and them with me, and have said so. I have also thanked people for their valid information and vice versa.
You have also missed the fact that I do not enter into discussion on every alternative idea. Nor have I dismissed other peoples experiences on such subjects like dowsing, for example Angie Lake.
''..........................................
I'm not going to do this here.....or anywhere else. It wastes too much of my time and energy; and life is too short to indulge in such luxuries.''
Then why are you?
And why have you picked me out for special attention over and above others? Although I feel honoured by this extra attention I cannot help feeling that it might just be because I've touched on a tender spot - perhaps you were under another alias?
Anyway, this is all very silly and incredibly dull for everyone else.
If you want to have the last word please go ahead as I have better things to do. Mithra
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waterbouy
Joined:
22-11-2006
Messages: 514
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2007-02-09 14:56
Quote:
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On 2007-02-09 13:48, Aluta wrote:
[quote]
On 2007-02-09 05:13, Chyknel wrote:
"Personal experience is evidence. Being told things isn't evidence."
Oh really?
So the development of writing and speech was pointless? The education system is unnecessary? There is no such thing as accumulated or shared wisdom? Every man is an island (of profound ignorance) eh?
T'aint so in general and t'ain't so in your case. Where did your ability to even make sense of your personal experiences come from? From others. From things you've been told. Without that sort of evidence your personal experiences would make no more sense to you than those of a day old child.
To reject the experiences of others (and that means heeding neither science nor philosophy) would be to hillbillify society - something some here seem to be trying to do.
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I didn't say reject it. Consider it. But keep your wits about you. Who are they to you and do they wish you well. How close is their experience to yours?
You can refute things to your satisfaction by quoting authority and the general consensus and science. But I start from the place of knowing about that stuff and choosing not to make it my basis for evaluation. Therefore when posts are made of that material and you think they make your point, it will never convince us of anything but your devotion to what you've been told. You've found something to cling to that makes you feel secure and I respect that. For some it's the only way. But what's authority to you is a jumping off point for others. You won't prove anything new to us by laying out the system we've had pounded into our heads all our lives. It's just redundant.
[/quote]
And they know it!
mike
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Aluta
Joined:
06-04-2002
Messages: 1534
from PA, USA
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2007-02-09 13:48
Quote:
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On 2007-02-09 05:13, Chyknel wrote:
"Personal experience is evidence. Being told things isn't evidence."
Oh really?
So the development of writing and speech was pointless? The education system is unnecessary? There is no such thing as accumulated or shared wisdom? Every man is an island (of profound ignorance) eh?
T'aint so in general and t'ain't so in your case. Where did your ability to even make sense of your personal experiences come from? From others. From things you've been told. Without that sort of evidence your personal experiences would make no more sense to you than those of a day old child.
To reject the experiences of others (and that means heeding neither science nor philosophy) would be to hillbillify society - something some here seem to be trying to do.
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I didn't say reject it. Consider it. But keep your wits about you. Who are they to you and do they wish you well. How close is their experience to yours?
You can refute things to your satisfaction by quoting authority and the general consensus and science. But I start from the place of knowing about that stuff and choosing not to make it my basis for evaluation. Therefore when posts are made of that material and you think they make your point, it will never convince us of anything but your devotion to what you've been told. You've found something to cling to that makes you feel secure and I respect that. For some it's the only way. But what's authority to you is a jumping off point for others. You won't prove anything new to us by laying out the system we've had pounded into our heads all our lives. It's just redundant.
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celticpilgrim
Joined:
11-12-2005
Messages: 20
from New Zealand
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2007-02-09 07:50
MITHRA wrote: "And why should I be the one to 'move on'?"
Mithra...calm down and keep your hat on. That was a figure of speech. I.e. if you're not satisfied with what people offer you.....or more to the point, 'entrust' to you......then move on to others with whom you have a better rapport with; others more like-minded or like-spirited. You don't have be a believer of 'spirit', to understand what I'm saying here.
I havn't been on this forum very long at all......but in case you havn't worked it out yet, you will simply not win or earn the trust and respect of those you seem so willing to contend with.......demands for, "where are the proofs", evidence, back-up, facts, facts, etc, etc. This is the language that can be expected from those sitting in judgement seats.
There must be a better way to respond to people (and the things they share) who don't satisfy your expectations ??
No one......anywhere....has the right to demand such things of others regardless of where you find fault; and certainly not from those whose respect you have made no effort to win.
I have left websites where swords were brandished, demands were made, insults were traded, broadsides were fired at one another.......and both the topic, and the honest spirit in which it was written, became completely lost in the growing and on-going personal battles flying back and forth.
I'm not going to do this here.....or anywhere else. It wastes too much of my time and energy; and life is too short to indulge in such luxuries.
I guess I'm just not interested in spending all my spare time to write explanations on what I believe and why. I have opinions on all sorts of things, some of which I'll share, as I feel its safe from time to time to do so. But a huge area which makes up the larger part of the life of every single person on this planet, is for the most part intangible and subtle, and will never lend itself to conventional scientific critique. Its an essence of existence, the reality of which, follows its own rules and boundaries......and depends on no cerebral explanation for its nature, or existence (even though this often helps to clarify things !)
Ok.....I'm going to kick back and listen to some music!
Ken.
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