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Forum: Stones Forum
Moderated by : Andy B , TimPrevett , coldrum , Klingon , MickM , TheCaptain , bat400 , davidmorgan , Runemage , SolarMegalith , sem
Respond to: Ursa Maybe...
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mithra
Joined:
27-06-2006
Messages: 562
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|  New Message Posted!2006-08-25 18:17
On 2006-08-25 13:25, rbatham wrote:
''can't see your connection with zodiac to 5 planets.''
None at all, just added info.
I'm still getting to grips with this astronomy programme but have found the explanation for the dates! The Julian calendar was used up to its change to Gregorian (1582 in most of the world, 1752 in GB) So they have taken 10 days out of October 1582 (or, in other words, there are only 21 days in Oct 1582.). Which means that we will tally on dates. I'll now work on eclipses! Mithra.
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rbatham
Joined:
04-04-2006
Messages: 679
from Western Australia
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| New Message Posted!2006-08-25 13:25
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On 2006-08-25 13:08, mithra wrote:
Roy, Seems strange that the dates tally if we're not running on the same callendar me thinks! Anything else we can try out?
I have used info from Nasa, don't use Redshift as someone told me there was a problem with it - which might well have been sorted by now though.
The 12 signs (constellations) of the zodiac were devised by the ancient Greeks, only 5 planets were known to them. Mithra.
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Red shift 4 seems ok but limited to 4713 BC Julian day 1. Redshift 5 would be better as it can show maps of eclipses, but it locks up my computer quite often. Does your programme show Julian days? I fit does i can get them off my atari. Don't know why That fuul moon 2500 BC should tally.
can't see your connection with zodiac to 5 planets.
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mithra
Joined:
27-06-2006
Messages: 562
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| New Message Posted!2006-08-25 13:08
Roy, Seems strange that the dates tally if we're not running on the same callendar me thinks! Anything else we can try out?
I have used info from Nasa, don't use Redshift as someone told me there was a problem with it - which might well have been sorted by now though.
The 12 signs (constellations) of the zodiac were devised by the ancient Greeks, only 5 planets were known to them. Mithra.
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rbatham
Joined:
04-04-2006
Messages: 679
from Western Australia
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| New Message Posted!2006-08-25 06:01
Quote:
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On 2006-08-24 13:05, mithra wrote:
Roy, Are you sure it's one and a quarter days? I'm only wondering because of the leap years. (basically years divisible by 400).
Also which calendar is used to work out bible dates - the jewish calendar is different again.
You forgot to tell me which were the 12 oldest constellations.
Actually we could do a programme experiment to see how they tally. What date do you get for day and night being equal in length for England in spring this year.(18th March is what I have and the spring equinox was on the 20th). And again for 2,500 BC (I get day/night equal 9th April). Full moons were on 14th March this year and 7th April in 2,500 BC. If you cannot do this then can you suggest another way? Mithra.
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Sorry 1 1/4 days wrong.Must have been thinking of something else. You have to make allowances for these 'senior moments' Julian calendar is longer than Gregorian so going back you must add to it. 1582 + 45=1627 yrs. Gregory took 10 days out of that time so 1 day for every 162.7 yrs, or 0.614 days per century. This works to just over 6 days per 1000 yrs. the dates you gave me do correspond. 2500BC full moon 7th April . but only by coincidence. Try NASA, http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov./eclipse/eclipse.html. This site gives lists of eclipses. It uses Julian calendar BUT also year"zero" Which will make a dif of 1 yr on my prog and maybe yours. Also http:http://www.redshift.maris.com. Roy
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rbatham
Joined:
04-04-2006
Messages: 679
from Western Australia
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| New Message Posted!2006-08-24 13:29
Quote:
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On 2006-08-24 13:05, mithra wrote:
Roy, Are you sure it's one and a quarter days? I'm only wondering because of the leap years. (basically years divisible by 400).
Also which calendar is used to work out bible dates - the jewish calendar is different again.
You forgot to tell me which were the 12 oldest constellations.
Actually we could do a programme experiment to see how they tally. What date do you get for day and night being equal in length for England in spring this year.(18th March is what I have and the spring equinox was on the 20th). And again for 2,500 BC (I get day/night equal 9th April). Full moons were on 14th March this year and 7th April in 2,500 BC. If you cannot do this then can you suggest another way? Mithra.
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12 oldest the zodiac of course. on the ecliptic. I know there are others named by the greeks hercules etc. My point was that the constellations used today were invented or delinated by Ptolemy and Messier. I am going to set up my old Atari which has both julian and Gregorian then send you the conversions. the Jewish calendar in use at present is based on the lunar. From experiments with the bible I am sure the priest/astronmomers of the time used an accurate calendar which they got from Egypt or Babylon. My prog with julian works well on this. After all Caesar got it from them.
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mithra
Joined:
27-06-2006
Messages: 562
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2006-08-24 13:05
Roy, Are you sure it's one and a quarter days? I'm only wondering because of the leap years. (basically years divisible by 400).
Also which calendar is used to work out bible dates - the jewish calendar is different again.
You forgot to tell me which were the 12 oldest constellations.
Actually we could do a programme experiment to see how they tally. What date do you get for day and night being equal in length for England in spring this year.(18th March is what I have and the spring equinox was on the 20th). And again for 2,500 BC (I get day/night equal 9th April). Full moons were on 14th March this year and 7th April in 2,500 BC. If you cannot do this then can you suggest another way? Mithra.
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rbatham
Joined:
04-04-2006
Messages: 679
from Western Australia
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2006-08-24 06:21
Quote:
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On 2006-08-23 17:21, mithra wrote:
Roy, my programme runs on a properly adjusted Gregorian callendar (inc. leap-years), so the date you gave me will be way out for mine. No idea how to convert one to the other either, pity.
I put in the co-ordinates for Israel, not here. You're right we no longer see the whole of Scorpius, tail missing, but could 5,000 years ago. Mithra.
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Conversion is roughly add 1 1/4 days per century. About 5,000 yrs ago the southern cross was also visible in England. Gave you those other dates just to show that 'angels and visions' were natural astro phenomena. this type of superstition continued for a long time. Here is an iteresting one I found, thiis time from my old history book. 878AD King Alfred. It says, according to the monk Asser:-"One day in his adversity Alfred was visited by St Cuthbert, who in the garb of a poor man asked alms .He was reading a book when the pilgrim entered his covert, and the king lifted his hands to heaven and said " I thank God that he assisteth me by another poor man." Alfred had one loaf which he divided with the pilgrim who vanished , but afterwards appeared in a vision and announced that the days of the king's adversity were over."
Guess what, 29th October 878 AD Total eclipse passed over Wessex. You should be able to find that one if your prog can search for eclipses.
If you can't see the tail of scorpius no wonder you don't see the scorpian. Roy
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mithra
Joined:
27-06-2006
Messages: 562
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2006-08-23 17:21
Roy, my programme runs on a properly adjusted Gregorian callendar (inc. leap-years), so the date you gave me will be way out for mine. No idea how to convert one to the other either, pity.
I put in the co-ordinates for Israel, not here. You're right we no longer see the whole of Scorpius, tail missing, but could 5,000 years ago. Mithra.
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rbatham
Joined:
04-04-2006
Messages: 679
from Western Australia
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| New Message Posted!2006-08-23 13:58
Quote:
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On 2006-08-23 13:26, mithra wrote:
On 2006-08-23 01:40, rbatham wrote:
'' Only 12 constellations were named by the ancients.''
Which 12 are these please?
'' Take a look at night sky from Israel 16th Mar 1955 BC. Is that Jacob's Ladder?''
Have done. Cannot see anything that looks like a ladder, which stars are you referring to?
I can see, almost, the number '2' made up of 7 stars which include Alkaid,Alioth,Merak,Dubhe & Muscida - all but the last make up part of Ursa Major. Mithra.
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My programme uses julian calendar. i will re-check the date. You should see planets venus , mars saturn, jupiter and the moon spread across the sky. I used this as an example of how the ancients saw the skies. Here's another. Saw a documentry on Sodom & Gomorrah. Evidence for massive earthquake. human remains found of victims dated about 2,060 BC. bible says 'angels appeared' to Lot and men were smitten with blindness. Jjust co-incidence that total solar eclipse over that area 9th June 2065 BC.
anyway Scorpio may be too low on your horizon for proper id. Here passes overhead. I can only see one star of plough 10 dgs above horizon. If I travel 200kms north can view 7 and it looks marvellous lying flat on the horizon. Ancients saw differently due to precession. Roy
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mithra
Joined:
27-06-2006
Messages: 562
OFF-Line
| New Message Posted!2006-08-23 13:26
On 2006-08-23 01:40, rbatham wrote:
'' Only 12 constellations were named by the ancients.''
Which 12 are these please?
'' Take a look at night sky from Israel 16th Mar 1955 BC. Is that Jacob's Ladder?''
Have done. Cannot see anything that looks like a ladder, which stars are you referring to?
I can see, almost, the number '2' made up of 7 stars which include Alkaid,Alioth,Merak,Dubhe & Muscida - all but the last make up part of Ursa Major. Mithra.
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