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<< Our Photo Pages >> Stonehenge Car Park Postholes - Timber Circle in England in Wiltshire

Submitted by AngieLake on Saturday, 22 October 2022  Page Views: 28029

StonehengeSite Name: Stonehenge Car Park Postholes Alternative Name: Stonehenge Mesolithic Postholes, This is now an Ex Car Park, it has ceased to be etc...
Country: England County: Wiltshire Type: Timber Circle
Nearest Town: Amesbury
Map Ref: SU120424
Latitude: 51.180709N  Longitude: 1.829704W
Condition:
5Perfect
4Almost Perfect
3Reasonable but with some damage
2Ruined but still recognisable as an ancient site
1Pretty much destroyed, possibly visible as crop marks
0No data.
-1Completely destroyed
Destroyed Ambience:
5Superb
4Good
3Ordinary
2Not Good
1Awful
0No data.
2 Access:
5Can be driven to, probably with disabled access
4Short walk on a footpath
3Requiring a bit more of a walk
2A long walk
1In the middle of nowhere, a nightmare to find
0No data.
5 Accuracy:
5co-ordinates taken by GPS or official recorded co-ordinates
4co-ordinates scaled from a detailed map
3co-ordinates scaled from a bad map
2co-ordinates of the nearest village
1co-ordinates of the nearest town
0no data
4

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Ogham visited on 5th Aug 2009 - their rating: Cond: -1 Amb: 3 Access: 5

coldrum visited - their rating: Cond: -1 Amb: 2 Access: 5

AngieLake mdensham have visited here

Average ratings for this site from all visit loggers: Condition: -1 Ambience: 2.5 Access: 5

Stonehenge Car Park Postholes
Stonehenge Car Park Postholes submitted by Bladup : This one right near the Mesolithic post holes marks a Mesolithic Tree Throw (As you can see written on it) (Vote or comment on this photo)
In the former visitors' car park at Stonehenge there were three large round white 'blobs' on the tarmac often overlooked by motorists and visitors to Stonehenge. These marked the places where Mesolithic posts one stood in around 8,000 BC. A fourth feature was also found which did not contain evidence for a timber post, this was interpreted as a tree-throw hole. The car park has now moved and the location of each post hole is marked with a kind of little podium, or "sensitively designed low level marker". The one for the possible tree throw here looks rather like a buried giant tortoise, which will not, we hope, confuse any slightly short sighted zooarchaeologists from the future.

NB: 'Timber Circle' site type used as the closest to 'Timber Posts or Alignment'.

To quote from an EH publication*, 'The Stonehenge Companion':
"Pre-Stonehenge Pits - During work on an extension to the visitor's [sic] car park four (or possibly five) large postholes were found, all dating from the Mesolithic period before construction on Stonehenge began. The dubious fifth hole may have been where the root of a large tree once sat. In 8,000 BCE, the holes held pine posts nearly two and a half feet thick, which rotted in situ, and three of them seem to have been aligned on a rough east-west axis. Nothing similar has ever been found in Britain that dates so far back, but rows of posts from a similar period have been found in Scandinavia."
*[Printed edition of 2006, currently on sale in visitors' shop.]

We already have a photo posted on the Stonehenge site page by Baz in Dec 03, and there were several comments under this one, which I've copied and pasted here:
OS Grid Ref. SU120424.
In 1966, prior to the laying of the Stonehenge car park, three large post holes were discovered during an excavation of the site. Pine charcoal found within the holes has been dated to c8,000BC, which means that these post holes were in use 5,000 years before the commencement of Stonehenge. The post holes are now marked by circular patches of white paint upon the tarmac.

[Baz – 29.12.03]

Has there been any authoritative speculation as to purpose - the remains an earlier 'henge' perhaps, or what? What could it be about this particular site that held ancient men's interest for millenia, and promoted such an investment of monumental hours and titanic effort in creating the successive structures and modifications to existing structures?

[Septimus Rocket – 13.9.04]

Check out the alignment of these three holes: compare with the alignment of the three Giza Pyramids, the three massive henges comprising Thornborough Henges Complex. Surely it cannot be coincidence that all of these ancient markings mimic the "not-quite-straight" alignment of the three stars that comprise Orion's belt...

[Colin Reynolds – 17.1.05]

Also check out the Devil's Arrows at Boroughbridge, three stones that I expected to be in a straight line, and was quite suprised to find they were not. It immediately made be wonder about an association with the stars on Orion's Belt The arrows are not far from Thornborough henges, and quite possibly associated with them.

[Nicola Didsbury – 17.1.05]

The Devil's Arrows were originally 4, maybe 5 stones, weren't they?

[David Raven – 17.1.05]

Is the "not quite straight" alignment of all these sites identical? has anyone actually measured the angle of deviation from straight? If the angles are not identical then as ANY 3 points will form a similar "not quite straight" line the probability is overwhelming that the whole thing is a coincidence.

[enkidu41 – 18.1.05]

Even if it is a coincidence, it still leaves me wondering why these monuments are not in a straight line. Were these post holes the remains of a circular structure, which would explain the curvature, or are the three holes there in isolation? Its pondering things like this that keeps me enthralled by our ancient stones (even holes!), the whys and the mysteries, and knowing that we will never really know....

[Nicola Didsbury – 18.1.05]

I quite agree! I'm more than happy to speculate on their being formerly part of a circular structure (in fact, quite likely in my view) but this is quite different to Colin Reynold's view that the angle formed by the three marks is, in each case, a reflection of the three stars of Orion's Belt! Pshaw!

[enkidu41 – 19.1.05]

Actually at the three posts are seperated by 3000 years in the radiocarbon dates with the earliest dating to 11000 BC so its more likely that these represent a phased structure rather than any kind of henge or palisaded enclosure. There is a tree hole to the north of the posts which may have been the focus for the posts suggesting that they were religious in nature and probably totem like posts. Coincidently there is also a fourth post which was found during the digging of the pedestrian tunnel to Stonehenge during the 1980s leading too speculation that there are probably more undiscovered posts.

[Ian Coady – 3.1.06]
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Stonehenge Car Park Postholes
Stonehenge Car Park Postholes submitted by baz : OS Grid Ref. SU120424. In 1966, prior to the laying of the Stonehenge car park, three large post holes were discovered during an excavation of the site. Pine charcoal found within the holes has been dated to c8,000BC, which means that these post holes were in use 5,000 years before the commencement of Stonehenge. The post holes are now marked by circular patches of white paint upon the tarmac. (8 comments - Vote or comment on this photo)

Stonehenge Car Park Postholes
Stonehenge Car Park Postholes submitted by h_fenton : Stonehenge Car Park Post Holes, from above. Kite Aerial Photograph 2 June 2013 (6 comments - Vote or comment on this photo)

Stonehenge Car Park Postholes
Stonehenge Car Park Postholes submitted by Bladup : They aren't in the car park anymore as the car park is gladly gone from here now, These things now mark the Mesolithic post holes (As you can see written on it) (4 comments - Vote or comment on this photo)

Stonehenge Car Park Postholes
Stonehenge Car Park Postholes submitted by AngieLake : After sunset on 17th Dec, the view from the Western posthole towards the Cursus Barrows, over the top of the toilet block. (I read the alignment to the larger barrow, left of centre here, as 338 degs.) It really is a shame that these buildings mar the view. They could have all been put underground. (Vote or comment on this photo)

Stonehenge Car Park Postholes
Stonehenge Car Park Postholes submitted by AngieLake : Looking approximately west to east across the round white markers indicating the positions of the Stonehenge Car Park Postholes, or Mesolithic Posts. (Vote or comment on this photo)

Stonehenge Car Park Postholes
Stonehenge Car Park Postholes submitted by AngieLake : After sunset on 17th Dec. looking towards the Cursus Barrows from the central of the three postholes. (The alignment to larger barrow from posthole was North.)

Stonehenge Car Park Postholes
Stonehenge Car Park Postholes submitted by AngieLake : After sunset on 17th Dec, looking towards the Cursus Barrows from the Eastern posthole. (I made this angle to the larger barrow just west of north.)

Stonehenge Car Park Postholes
Stonehenge Car Park Postholes submitted by AngieLake : A view of the postholes from East towards West. 17.12.08

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"Stonehenge Car Park Postholes" | Login/Create an Account | 16 News and Comments
  
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Re: Stonehenge Car Park Postholes by Andy B on Saturday, 22 October 2022
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Heritage Gateway:
https://www.heritagegateway.org.uk/Gateway/Results_Single.aspx?uid=219856&resourceID=19191

In 2016 Tim Daw suggested he had found a fourth posthole on a line with the others and was "threatened with the sack" if he mentioned it to anyone. (comment on)
A Fourth Mesolithic Post Hole in The Stonehenge Car Park?
https://www.sarsen.org/2016/07/a-fourth-mesolithic-post-hole-in.html
[ Reply to This ]

Re: Stonehenge Car Park Postholes by Anonymous on Tuesday, 19 October 2021
However, these mark the places where Mesolithic posts ""one"" stood in around 8,000 BC. - D'oh!

Correction - However, these mark the places where Mesolithic posts ""once"" stood in around 8,000 BC.
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Re: Stonehenge Car Park Postholes by Andy B on Wednesday, 24 June 2020
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Between 7th and 18th March 1966, on behalf of the Ministry of Public Buildings and Works, Lance and Faith Vatcher excavated three post holes during an extension to the visitor car park at Stonehenge. Their original report, published in The Wiltshire Archaeological and Natural History Magazine in 1973, is here.
https://archive.org/stream/wiltshirearchaeo6819wilt#page/56/mode/2up
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10,000 Year Old Stonehenge Monument by Andy B on Wednesday, 24 June 2020
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Austin Kinsley writes: Man has enjoyed a close relationship with the landscape in the environs of Stonehenge since Mesolithic times and the first Stonehenge monument was erected 10 000 years ago of pine posts . By the time the ditch and bank structure that surrounds the monument that we are all familiar with today was constructed around 3,000 BC, that first monumentalised relationship with the area had existed for 5,000 years. Stonehenge has therefore been many ‘buildings’ over countless generations. Wooden posts and later stones have been frequently dismantled, moved, re-erected, added to and subtracted from. It is not beyond the realm of possibility that smaller-roofed structures may have existed over the millennia, as enigmatic post holes also exist within the monument site and these structures at times may have been roofed.

English Heritage state that “The earliest structures known in the immediate area are four or five pits, three of which appear to have held large pine ‘totem-pole like’ posts erected in the Mesolithic period, between 8,500 and 7,000 BC. It is not known how these posts relate to the later monument of Stonehenge.”

At that time, less than two miles to the east, close to the banks of the River Avon at Amesbury at ‘the cradle of Stonehenge’, the builders of that early monument feasted on aurochs, eel, salmon, trout, wild boar, red deer, hazelnuts and frogs’ legs.

In a conversation with Dan Rendell recently, he stated: “A recent theory put forward is that the ‘totem poles’ may have marked seasonal migrational routes of those aurochs, placed as a locator to hunters, and a ‘monument’ to those great beasts (auroch skulls were also found in the later henge ditch) which would have represented awesome adversaries, needing many men to take them down.

More at https://www.silentearth.org/10000-year-old-stonehenge-monument/
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Stonehenge pine post holes by Anonymous on Thursday, 30 October 2014
~ 8000 BC, Pine Post Holes at Stonehenge.

The car park pine post holes are - to date - the first known structures at the Stonehenge site.

As the purpose of the Stones is to observe the sun rise at certain times of the year, it is possible that the pine post holes had the same function by acting as fixed observation points. Natural landmarks as fixed sunrise points to locate the sunrises at different parts of the year would suffice as an initial development to enable the British nomads to judge when it was time to carry out various functions such as visiting various gathering ground to obtain the ripe food and to prepare for winter.

I visited Stonehenge at dawn, midsummer, 2014, and personally observed from the pine post holes that the sun rose over the intersection of the horizons of two low hills. Magnetic compass readings {that may have a high error margin) indicated the spring and autumn sunrises were marked by the brow of a distant hill. The midwinter sunrise was on the horizon of a low hill with no obvious natural marker but at the site of Stonehenge itself - a coincidence, or was a fixed marker first erected here leading eventually to Stonehenge ?

Some 16th century North West American native Indians - a stone age culture as per the Neolithic cultures - had posts as ‘totem’ poles that served non-practical ceremonial functions. It may be that originally they had a practical ‘clock’ function too, that enabled a simple prediction of future seasons and weather - useful to a hunter gatherer nomadic culture that followed a regular route as well as vital to a settled farming culture.

For fuller details please see section 8 of https://sites.google.com/site/originsofstonehenge/

dave1982
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Re: Stonehenge Car Park Postholes by enjaytom on Wednesday, 28 November 2012
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Has anyone a jpeg image of an accurate surveyors plan of the four 'car park' post holes as they relate to the 56 Aubrey Holes and the exact centre of Stonehenge???
True north and the angle of the alignment from the Stonehenge centre to the middle of the four post holes is vitally important. The distance of the four post holes, one from another, is equally so???
At latitude 51 degrees north, has anyone an accurate measure of the diameter of the rising full Moon at the moment it peeps above the horizon as it relates to the distance of the spaces between posts???
A full explanation of my hypothesis will be posted on receipt of the answers. Grateful thanks.
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    Re: Stonehenge Car Park Postholes by tiompan on Wednesday, 28 November 2012
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    P42 0f the Cleal book has an accurate plan of the location of the post holes . The fourth is quite separate . The distances between the other three posts are approx 10m and 12 m . The alignment from the centre of the car park with the caveat that the car aprk is below the horizon ,see below is within the extremes of the major standstill ,the fourth hole (probably a tree throw )is too far north for the moon to reach . The car park is below the horizon as seen from the centre of the monument .The usual calculation of post height from the depth of post hole is that the post hole depth is one third of the entire length of the post , the depth of the post holes in the car park were max 1.5m suggesting a height of 3m . For the posts just to reach the level of the horizon they would have had to be 7.5 m high . And to frame the moon from a distance of 250 meters higher still .

    George
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Re: Stonehenge Car Park Postholes by ghostlly on Tuesday, 27 November 2012
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They found "wood henges" here in the Uninted states in several places. Circles of wooden post put up by the native americans.
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Some news on the future of the Mesolithic post holes in the current car park by Andy B on Thursday, 08 November 2012
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The Sacred Grove of the Western Isles enquired recently about what the plans are for marking the 'totem poles', the markers for which are in the car park at present. The plans are that once the new visitor centre is built the old car park returned to grass.

Rob Campbell from the project team replied: "The plan is to mark the Mesolithic post holes and tree throws with some sensitively designed low level markers. The design is still being worked out. They will be representative of the items that once stood there but will not seek to replicate them. They will not be like the markers at Stonehenge."

More details will be available in March 2013.

Source:
http://sacredgrovewesternisles.co.uk/#/stonehenge-general/4530885498
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    Re: Some news on the future of the Mesolithic post holes in the current car park by andraste on Saturday, 10 November 2012
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    Thanks for showing such interest in our website and the query we made re the totems' future, and having joined here at last, I can see that my site will get neglected as I spend hours reading - Ive often popped on here for info but never thought to add anything.

    Andraste Herewig
    http://sacredgrovewesternisles.co.uk
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Stonehenge and Avebury seminar at Devizes, May 2010 by Andy B on Monday, 21 June 2010
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Michael Allen’s presentation on “Defining the inherited natural landscape” was interesting because he’s using the natural archaeo-ecology of the site (like land snails, for instance) to map the ancient woodland landscape. John Evans did important work using snails to show that shrubs and trees had encroached on the Stonehenge site after the ditch/bank was built, so there had to be clearance for the construction of the sarsen stone circles. Allen’s work from the car park postholes shows that the Mesolithic landscape was open savannah, or rough grassland, while the preserved soil under the Cursus long barrow would never have supported ancient woodland. But similar long barrows show different condition: Woodhenge was originally scrubland, while Durrington Walls was open woodland.

Allen proposes that the early landscape showed a number of “special” places, with open grassland, but with a mosaic of different vegetation nearby. This ecological diversity would have provided good opportunities for early settlers to have found the resources they needed for survival. The lesson to be learned is that the early landscape was not of uniform tree/vegetation cover, and the diversity would have determined patterns of settlement.

More at
http://www.eternalidol.com/?p=7267#comments
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Stonehenge Car Park Postholes Street View by SteveDut on Thursday, 01 April 2010
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Re: Stonehenge Car Park Postholes by AngieLake on Friday, 31 July 2009
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I copied this from 'Chalkland an archaeology of Stonehenge and its region' by Andrew J Lawson, Hobnob Press [published 2007]. He was in charge of Wessex Archaeology for 20 years, so speaks with much authority on the subject. (I don't think he'd mind us having a glimpse or two between the covers of this excellent book.)

The Stonehenge Car Park Postholes
At the time of discovery the Stonehenge landscape project provided a unique development for the Early Mesolithic Period. In 1935 a car park was created to the north of the A344 road from Amesbury to Devizes, some 100m north-west of Stonehenge, so that visitors’ cars would not hinder traffic. Although the area stripped of turf and soil was examined by W E V Young, an experienced excavator who had helped to supervise excavations by Alexander Keiller at Avebury, no features were found. The car park was later doubled in size but there is no record of archaeological work at that time. However, in 1966 when it was again extended (so that it was by this time four times the size of the original), a series of circular features cut into the chalk bedrock, and set roughly in line, were observed. Excavation was undertaken by Faith Vatcher, at that time the much-respected curator of the Avebury Museum, with her husband Major Lance Vatcher. They discovered that three of the features were substantial pits cut into the ground, while a fourth was the place where a tree had once stood. Whereas tree-throws are commonly found on the chalk of this area, the pits were more unusual. There is no record of whether the area where the new visitor facilities were to be placed was investigated by the Vatchers. However, when these facilities were also enlarged in 1988, a fourth pit was discovered. It was excavated and recorded by Martin Trott, a young graduate of Southampton University who at the time was working for Wessex Archaeology (later he joined the Inland Revenue.)
The four pits were all roughly circular, 1.3m to 1.9m in diameter, and 1.3m to 1.5m deep, and appear once to have held substantial posts c.0.75m in diameter. Unlike the Vatcher’s pits, Trott’s was found to have been re-cut at a much later stage and subsequently deliberately back filled. Only a few undiagnostic flint flakes and other remains were incorporated into the fill of the pits. However, charcoal from the fills was found to be solely from pine trees. More surprisingly, radiocarbon dates obtained from this charcoal suggest that the pits had been dug between 10,500 and 8,500 years ago. Snail shells and pollen grains preserved in the fill suggest that the pits were cut in woodland. Taken together, the disposition of soil layers within the pits, the pine charcoal, radiocarbon dates and snail shells provide sound evidence that during the Early Mesolithic a group of people erected stout pine posts in the middle of a mature pine and hazel (Boreal) woodland (Cleal et al 1995, 43-56).
Although Mesolithic sites sometimes produce evidence for light structures, such as shelters or huts, the nature of the features in the Stonehenge Car Park was without parallel. The original number of posts and the form of setting they created, or indeed whether they all stood at one time, is unknown because their discovery was fortuitous and the area investigated around them was limited. Similarly, their function is unknown. In the absence of better clues, it is tempting to suggest that they were erected for some special, ceremonial purpose, or to mark the land in a territorial way. The life-style of North-West Coast Americans and their usage of large poles carved or hung with emblems and totems indicate the sort of tradition which might be envisaged. Nonetheless, the posts may well have marked an exceptional place whose meaning is now lost but which endured both while the posts stood and later. If, as seems likely, they stood in a primeval wood, or possibly a natural glade, their physical setting would have been very different from that of today. Unlike the open views which we see now, the

Read the rest of this post...
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    Re: Stonehenge Car Park Postholes by johnchristie on Tuesday, 17 May 2011
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    Radio carbon dating is the best system we have for dating organic artifacts, on the whole it is a system that works well. Trouble occurs when we are asked to believe that 10,000 year old artifacts are the same age as 5,000 year old holes. The Vatchers should not have associated the charcoal they found with the date when those holes were dug; all too easy a mistake to make.

    Let me explain:
    Firstly: Those car-park holes were indeed there to support the tall trunks of fir trees, as one of four groups of postholes positioned as accurately as those erecting the posts were able, equidistant about a circle having a radius of 363 yards, centered beneath a later tumulus 298 yards south west from the centre of stonehenge. The fact that the most easterly post stood outside and the other two inside that part of a huge circle accounts for them not forming a straight line. Unfortunately the other three groups are only occasionally visible as ghost holes and have yet to be located by excavation, as are the four other similar groups, two within that large circle to the south and south west part of the way along sightlines to the four stones that used, during the early life of Stonehenge, form the facade that used to stand on the circumferance of that huge circle, of which the Heel Stone is the only one still in its place. The remaining two groups can on occasions be seen some 220 yards on sightlines from the car-park holes
    and the group only one hole of which is sometimes visible because the circle at that point crosses the A303, that converge on a point a few feet to the west of the Avenue where it bends to the east.
    Lastly: The reason those holes for surveying posts can not possibly be 10,000 years old is rampant erosion of the chalk that was prevelent
    until about 3,000 B. C. As it is, some four to five feet of those holes have disappeared since they were created at the same time as the arena, equaling similar erosion as that which occurred in the entrance to Stonehenge,where holes longing to a round-house that was removed to make way for the new facility have all but disappeared.



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      Re: Stonehenge Car Park Postholes by Swddn on Sunday, 20 April 2014
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      johnchristie's argument that the ash was not related to the posts does nothing to solve the embarrassment of finding 10,000 year old datable remains at a neolithic site, but his argument why the ash can't be related to the posts is an even better argument for why the ash can't be there naturally. We know it wasn't there before the chalk, and, as johnchristie tells us, it would have washed away if it were above the chalk. Perhaps we are to believe that the Stonehenge builders put ash they knew to already be 5,000 years old into those holes?
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