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| "Swastika Stone" | Login/Create an Account | 8 comments | ||
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| Comments are owned by the poster. We aren't responsible for their content. |
| Boomerangs a 'British invention' (Score: 1) by Andy B on Thursday, 20 May 2004 (User Info | Send a Message) |
| Children's author Terry Deary claims the famous "Swastika Stone" on Ilkley Moor in West Yorkshire proves the boomerang was invented in the UK. The Horrible Histories writer argues the carving, said to be 3-4,000 years old, can only be a throwing device. But Gavin Edwards, West Yorkshire's County Archaeologist, doubts the Deary interpretation and believes the rock art has a simpler explanation. "The swastika was a common abstract symbol in prehistoric Europe," he said. Angry Australians The famous four-armed carving is a popular tourist attraction. "It is one of thousands of abstract carvings on rocks in the area," Mr Edwards told BBC News Online. Terry Deary came up with his assessment while out jogging on the moor. "It's the earliest representation of a boomerang. There is nothing else it could be," he said. There is evidence that many Stone Age civilisations used throwing sticks, but Aboriginal Australians have commonly been associated with their invention, about 10,000 years ago. It is Deary's claim, however, that the Ilkley Moor carving would be the first representation of a return boomerang. Over time, the two-armed boomerang was developed. Mr Edwards, whose job it is to protect the Ilkley Moor carvings, does not however think it is a boomerang. "There are almost identical swastika symbols found carved on rocks in Italy, Sweden and Portugal," he says. The swastika symbol was often used by ancient peoples. It is thought to represent the Sun. It bears only a little resemblance to the emblem used by the Nazi's in the last century. Victorian prank Gavin Edwards even has a sneaking suspicion that the Ilkley Moor swastika may not be entirely authentic. "It is very difficult to date rock carvings," he said. "After all, they are just damage to the surface of a rock. "I have no proof of this but I suspect that it is possible the Victorians - who wanted to promote the region as a place worth visiting - may have embellished some rock carvings on the moors to add to the region's appeal." However, most of the rock carvings are undoubtedly authentic - if mysterious in origin. "We do not know why they are there. Clearly there was a thought process behind their shapes and the places where they were carved, but we do not know what it is," Mr Edwards said. "Remember, 4,000 years ago the moors would have been heavily wooded, meaning that we do not see them today as they were originally." By Dr David Whitehouse BBC News Online science editor |
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| Re: Boomerangs a 'British invention' (Score: 1) by andy_h on Friday, 28 May 2004 (User Info | Send a Message) |
| It should be remembered here that Terry Deary has a new book out and is sponsored by a company called 'Boomerang'. So I suspect that this has more to do with publicity than any serious contribution to interpreting rock art. It is probable that the carving dates from the Iron Age (c. 700 BC up to the Roman Invasion), not the Neolithic. The other rock art on the moor is mostly based on cup, ring and groove motifs and are quite broad and deep, being carved with stone tools and probably dating from the late Neolithic or early Bronze Age. The carving of the swastika motif is much more shallow and narrower than the other carvings, and was probably carved with a metal tool (the picture that has appeared in many of the news items is of the 20th century reproduction that sits next to the original). The swastika motif (sometimes called a Fylfot), appears all over Europe and Asia and was thought to have originated in Scandinavia and Germanic Europe. A similar motif was also used as a symbol for Brigid (also known as Brid, Bride, Brig, Brigantia and the christianised St Bridget), the Celtic spring goddess in the shape of a fylfot woven out of straw. As most of Yorkshire was inhabited by the Brigantine tribe during the Iron Age, it is possible that the carving may date from that time. The motif on Ilkley Moor also has much in common with the 'Camunian Rose' found in the rock art of Valcamonica in Northern Italy, dating from the Iron Age. This is based on a cross of cup marks, interwoven with a groove design.... not always in a swastika shape. So another possibility is that the design came to Britain with Roman troops recruited from that area, and stationed at Olicana, the Roman Fort established where Ilkley now stands. There are many theories about what the Swastika represents. One is that it is a sun symbol, another that it represents the turning of the heavens around the pole star. The Ilkley Moor version has a hook-shaped groove protruding from it's eastern arm, enclosing a groove. This points in the direction of the summer solstice sunrise and could symbolise the progression of the sun. Whatever it means.... it's definitely not a boomerang! If you'd like to read further on the Ilkley Moor Swastika Stone, or the Camunian Rose motif, there are a few excellent on-line essays here... http://rupestre.net/tracce/FARINA.html http://www.geocities.com/Athens/2996/swastika.html http://www.geocities.com/Athens/2996/camros2.html http://norlonto.net/index.cfm/action/articles.view/itemID/66 |
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| Re: Boomerangs a 'British invention' (Score: 0) by Anonymous on Thursday, 27 January 2005 |
| How can you say that it is 100% not a boomerang, when no-one knows for certain what it is. I was with a member of the Australian boomerang throwing team (now based in London) when we saw the images of the stone in the press. He immediately admitted that it looked exactly like a boomerang and that there are boomerangs on the market today that look identical tto this carving. Terry Deary's point - "If it looks like a boomerang, and no-one else can prove it is anything else, then it probably is a boomerang" shouldn't be sniffed at. There are far too many historians and so called experts who dispell new theries far too soon without really looking at the possabities. |
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| Hindus opposing EU swastika ban (Score: 1) by Andy B on Wednesday, 17 January 2007 (User Info | Send a Message) |
| Hindus in Europe have joined forces against a German proposal to ban the display of the swastika across the European Union, a Hindu leader said. Ramesh Kallidai of the Hindu Forum of Britain said the swastika had been a symbol of peace for thousands of years before the Nazis adopted it. Germany took over the six-month EU presidency on 1 January, [just don't mention the war!]. More at BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6269627.stm |
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| Re: Boomerangs a 'British invention' (Score: 1) by Andy B on Wednesday, 17 January 2007 (User Info | Send a Message) |
| Andy H writes: If you'd like to read further on the Ilkley Moor Swastika Stone, or the Camunian Rose motif, there are a few excellent on-line essays here... http://rupestre.net/tracce/FARINA.html http://www.geocities.com/Athens/2996/swastika.html http://www.geocities.com/Athens/2996/camros2.html http://norlonto.net/index.cfm/action/articles.view/itemID/66 |
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| Re: Boomerangs a 'British invention' (Score: 0) by Anonymous on Tuesday, 23 January 2007 |
| The shape appears in proto-Bulgarian as cross fourchee, >+<, read as letter A and with II is pronounced /ang/. It is seen as meaning "sacred vow (to Zeus)" and may relate to Celtic ang meaning "narrow spot. death". The Brahmi script promoted by Syrians has K back-to-front as letter A, which may relate to the Bulgarian shape. This led to Devanegari and Cham scripts of Brahmin Hindus, which have that reverse K for letter A. Champa ang means "numerals. respect", which suggests meaning for the Yorks. swastika. ANCyra fort in Asia Minor was visited by Alexander the Great, and is linked to ANGora goats for camelot goatwool cloth (OED 'camlat' 'chimere'). The Chimera goat there became guardian of Hades._H.Rose "Handbook Gr. Myth"p.83., which relates to Celtic ang "death" and the swastika symbol. John Welch |
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