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Ark of Secrets - Neolithic spirit alive in the Middle Ages

Megaliths, Stones of Memory

Megaliths, Stones of Memory

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<< Other Photo Pages >> Overchurch - Stone Circle in England in Merseyside

Submitted by Andy B on Friday, 21 February 2014  Page Views: 16199

Neolithic and Bronze AgeSite Name: Overchurch
Country: England County: Merseyside Type: Stone Circle
 Nearest Village: Upton
Map Ref: SJ264888
Latitude: 53.390886N  Longitude: 3.108174W
Condition:
5Perfect
4Almost Perfect
3Reasonable but with some damage
2Ruined but still recognisable as an ancient site
1Pretty much destroyed, possibly visible as crop marks
0No data.
-1Completely destroyed
1 Ambience:
5Superb
4Good
3Ordinary
2Not Good
1Awful
0No data.
3 Access:
5Can be driven to, probably with disabled access
4Short walk on a footpath
3Requiring a bit more of a walk
2A long walk
1In the middle of nowhere, a nightmare to find
0No data.
3 Accuracy:
5co-ordinates taken by GPS or official recorded co-ordinates
4co-ordinates scaled from a detailed map
3co-ordinates scaled from a bad map
2co-ordinates of the nearest village
1co-ordinates of the nearest town
0no data
3

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Hogeybare visited on 21st Jun 2021 - their rating: Cond: 1 Amb: 3 Access: 4

Hogeybare visited on 21st Jun 2021 - their rating: Cond: 1 Amb: 3 Access: 4 Almost entirely gone, really difficult to find the stones hidden in the woods.



Average ratings for this site from all visit loggers: Condition: 1 Ambience: 3 Access: 4

Overchurch
Overchurch submitted by Creative Commons : Overchurch Park is the area of grass and woodland bordered by Royden Road, the Upton By-pass, Moreton Road and the Overchurch Estate. It includes Overchurch Graveyard and the site of a Norman Church, the earliest references to the church are in 1347. In the mid 20th century odd shaped stones were discovered nearby which had strange inscriptions on them. After examination by an expert the strange s... (Vote or comment on this photo)
Possible Stone Circle in the Wirral, Merseyside. One stone remains but is not upright. The Ordnance Survey recorded other large stones nearby. Built almost a mile from the centre of Upton, this is the site of a demolished church which seems to have once been part of a village named Overchurch. Nothing remains of the village now.

A new parish church was erected in Upton village. During the demolition of the old church, the famous Overchurch Rune Stone was discovered. The stone dates from Anglo Saxon times, see our linked page for more details.

This find suggested that the early 1815 church was built on the site of a much earlier place
of worship which was confirmed by D O’Hanlon and K Pealin in their survey of the site of Overchurch, Upton, Wirral. They refer to the circular form of the enclosure around the old graveyard at Overchurch as having possible links with a time prior to the early Christian period. They further refer to the ‘enclosure’ also having a ‘depression’ which could possibly have been an internal ditch, a feature that would correspond to the usual structure of a henge.

This very thorough 1986 survey refers briefly to the plotting and recording of ridge and furrow, standing stones and pits and ponds by triangulation and makes brief reference to the 1898 OS map which shows a path leading to the churchyard from Upton Village.

What the report does not mention is that there were a number of other ‘stones’ indicated on that OS map that described a circle with a diameter of no longer standing upright.

Read more, with photos and map extracts in the article by Malcolm C McIvor, ‘Wirral's stone circlees - or were they?’, from Sheetlines 95 (2012). (PDF file)

This is the journal of the Charles Close Society who study old Ordnance Survey maps.

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Overchurch Wirral, Standing Stones location on modern map
Overchurch Wirral, Standing Stones location on modern map submitted by thedrumdoctor : Modern rough montage showing location of Standing Stones at Overchurch Wirral, in comparison to the modern layout of the area. (Vote or comment on this photo)

Overchurch
Overchurch submitted by thedrumdoctor : 1899 OS Map of the site at Overchurch Wirral, highlighting Standing Stones recorded by the Cartographer at the time. There is a circular nature to the stones surrounding the Overchurch site which may be prehistoric. (1 comment - Vote or comment on this photo)

Do not use the above information on other web sites or publications without permission of the contributor.

Nearby Images from Geograph Britain and Ireland:
SJ2688 : Overchurch Park Wood by Sue Adair
by Sue Adair
©2012(licence)
SJ2689 : Roundabout, Upton Spur by Sue Adair
by Sue Adair
©2012(licence)
SJ2689 : Journey's End by J Scott
by J Scott
©2010(licence)
SJ2688 : Elizabeth II postbox on Moreton Road, Upton by JThomas
by JThomas
©2019(licence)
SJ2688 : Patriot's house on Doncaster Drive, Upton by JThomas
by JThomas
©2019(licence)

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Nearby sites listing. In the following links * = Image available
 2.2km SSW 195° Greasby Copse Ancient Village or Settlement (SJ25788664)
 2.7km ENE 62° Bidston Hill Rock Carvings* Carving (SJ288900)
 2.9km SSE 166° Arrowe Park standing stones Standing Stones (SJ27058596)
 3.7km WNW 298° Great Meols* Ancient Village or Settlement (SJ231906)
 3.9km E 85° The Bonks Barrow Cemetery (SJ303891)
 4.3km SSW 206° Thor's Stone* Natural Stone / Erratic / Other Natural Feature (SJ2447484933)
 4.7km WSW 244° West Kirby Cremation Burial Cist (SJ22158678)
 4.7km WSW 241° The Column* Chambered Tomb (SJ222866)
 4.8km SW 223° Face Stone (Stapledon Wood)* Rock Outcrop (SJ23088536)
 5.2km WSW 241° St Bridget (West Kirby)* Early Christian Sculptured Stone (SJ21828641)
 6.1km W 266° Red Rocks Ancient Mine, Quarry or other Industry (SJ20328843)
 7.9km W 263° Hilbre Island (Wirral Peninsula) Ancient Cross (SJ185879)
 8.6km ENE 76° World Museum Liverpool* Museum (SJ348908)
 10.0km SE 125° St Patrick's Well (Bromborough)* Holy Well or Sacred Spring (SJ34538295)
 10.7km SE 127° St Barnabas (Bromborough)* Ancient Cross (SJ3491082212)
 11.2km ENE 57° St Mary (Walton on the Hill) Ancient Cross (SJ35889482)
 11.5km SSE 148° Raby Mound Round Barrow(s) (SJ32377891)
 11.6km SSE 165° St Mary and St Helen (Neston)* Ancient Cross (SJ29157749)
 11.8km ENE 62° Modern stone circle on Cherry Avenue* Modern Stone Circle etc (SJ3687894265)
 12.9km E 86° Monk's Well (Wavertree)* Holy Well or Sacred Spring (SJ39288959)
 12.9km E 99° Solomon's Tomb Modern Stone Circle etc (SJ391865)
 13.8km E 99° Robin Hood's Stone* Standing Stone (Menhir) (SJ3997886383)
 14.0km E 94° The Calderstones* Chambered Tomb (SJ4040287622)
 14.7km SW 219° Ffynnon Oswald Holy Well or Sacred Spring (SJ1688577622)
 14.8km SSW 211° St Winefrides Well* Holy Well or Sacred Spring (SJ18517627)
View more nearby sites and additional images

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"Overchurch" | Login/Create an Account | 21 News and Comments
  
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Re: Overchurch by Anonymous on Monday, 02 January 2023
The link 'Malcolm C McIvor, ‘Wirral's stone circlees - or were they?'
has been moved to
https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/sheetlines-articles/Issue95page47.pdf
[ Reply to This ]

Re: Ley hunting with Watkins by Anonymous on Thursday, 08 March 2018
Hi there is also two maybe three stones in Upton Park off manor drive not sure if they are related one is on the foot path in park near to where it forks toward children’s play area there also seems to be one on the woodland near to entrance off entry to fender view lane on Sandbrook estate. I’m
Sure there’s another one along footpath too. I may be wrong but they look out of place an out made of sandstone.
[ Reply to This ]
    Re: Ley hunting with Watkins by Anonymous on Thursday, 08 March 2018
    And our made of sandstone sorry for typos!
    [ Reply to This ]
      Re: Ley hunting with Watkins by Anonymous on Thursday, 08 March 2018
      Are dammit! Lack of sleep 😂
      [ Reply to This ]

Wirral megalithic sites : Update by davidgregg on Sunday, 21 January 2018
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Hello! My preliminary analyses of Overchurch, Arrowe Park and the Fender Lane Array are now published in 'A Wirral Megalithic Mystery', available from Amazon Books if anybody is interested. Meanwhile I have been scanning the old 25 inch and 6 inch OS maps available for Wirral. I have found several new sites with multiple stone patterns present in the mid 19th century including part of a large double circle. Overall from this sample of maps I believe there could have been more than ~150 ancient standing stones in the area. Alas the few I have been able to check out suggest that most of the stones are gone. I am currently analysing these new sites and will report back. G
Prof. Dave Gregg (retired)

[ Reply to This ]

Wirral Megalithic Sites? by Andy B on Sunday, 19 November 2017
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Professor D P Gregg (retired) writes: Hello. I have recently followed up several suggestions about 'ancient' stone sites on the Wirral at Overchurch Hill, Arrowe Park and Fender Lane, Bidston using 25 inch and 6 inch to the mile 19th century OS maps. I have analysed the geometry of all three sites with these results :

At Overchurch (Upton) 7 stones define an accurate circle of ~1176 ft diameter. 5 of these stones define two sectors of an inscribed hexagon. Near the centre is the Saxon / Norman Overchurch graveyard raised platform. The platform geometry is regular and interesting and the church footprint is related to that geometry and the circle.

At Arrowe Park 13 stones define two large concentric circles and a third circle, jointly. The diameter of the inner circle is ~2300 ft. Yes I know : twice the diameter of Avebury. The internal geometry is also hexagonal.

At Fender Lane the old maps show 3 rows of stones roughly north - south with 42 stones originally in the array which is ~1260 ft long. The array is very accurately laid out based on two near right triangles sharing a hypotenuse.

All 3 sites show several alignments to solar / lunar rising and setting events with good accuracy including cross quarter day events. The Fender linear array has features similar to Thom's Scottish 'fans' and to Carnac. These sites are neglected and I am hoping to persuade the authorities to take an interest, via geophysics, etc, before all traces are obliterated. Neolithic artifacts such as polished stone axes and arrow heads are known in the area of north Wirral. I am writing a short book on these sites and would like to hear from anyone locally who has also studied them or knows of other sites.

Professor D P Gregg (retired)
Member ID: davidgregg
[ Reply to This ]
    Re: Wirral Megalithic Sites? by Anonymous on Wednesday, 22 November 2017
    hello there, I'm very interested in the stone circle at arrowe park.ive studied the old os maps and I'm in the process of looking at alignments with other circles and standing stones. i have come across a somewhat decorative monolith which i believe has gone unnoticed in the wallasey area, i will go and take my camera today. maybe somebody can shed some light on what it is. thank you

    lee piercy
    [ Reply to This ]
      Re: Wirral Megalithic Sites? by davidgregg on Wednesday, 22 November 2017
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      Hello lee and thanks. There are three large circles at Arrowe, two of them concentric as Malcolm McIvor suggested. The inner circle is ~2314 ft in diameter, apparently with an inscribed hexagon. Altogether 13 stones seem to be involved in the geometry. I was surprised by these findings and at first suspected a hoax...but it seems to be genuine. Two of the stones are still standing...five others nearby are probably Victorian and not on the OS maps. I look forward to seeing your Wallasey stone. How does it relate to St. Hillary's?
      Dave G
      [ Reply to This ]
      Re: Wirral Megalithic Sites? by Anonymous on Wednesday, 22 November 2017
      hi thanks for replying, i have looked on map, but seems to to be no stones on eastern side that i can match up as any circles, unless I'm looking at it wrong maybe.? the stone in wallasey as i have looked at a os map from 1840s (the oldest i can get only suggests this stone as a monument...and nothing else. but i will take a look now. and post up a pic very soon, thank you

      lee piercy
      [ Reply to This ]
        Re: Wirral Megalithic Sites? by Andy B on Thursday, 23 November 2017
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        Thanks Lee and David, we'd love to see some photos of these stones. Could you have a look at the forum thread from David M where he has posted a map showing the stones and says he can't make out the "circles". Here it is:
        http://www.megalithic.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=Forum&file=viewtopic&topic=7592&forum=1&start=0
        [ Reply to This ]
        Re: Wirral Megalithic Sites? by davidgregg on Thursday, 23 November 2017
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        lee I can only see two genuine stones on the Arrowe Park site now BUT I have not searched the woods or further west. The other stones are on the 25 inch OS maps, the one I worked from was 1872. I used the 12 stones (2 still there) noted by McIvor plus one I found to the south, 13 in all. There is another stone west of Redstones Farm but I do not know if it is connected. The ground proof of my reconstruction would require re-finding the stone holes. For that we need geophys.

        Dave Gregg
        [ Reply to This ]
    Re: Wirral Megalithic Sites? by Runemage on Wednesday, 22 November 2017
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    Thanks Lee, looking forward to seeing your photos.
    [ Reply to This ]
    Re: Wirral Megalithic Sites? by davidmorgan on Wednesday, 22 November 2017
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    I've started a forum thread re the Arrowe Park 13 stones.
    [ Reply to This ]

Standing stones in Arrowe Park and to the east of Fenderlane Farm by Andy B on Wednesday, 12 February 2014
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Another short extract from Malcolm C McIvor's article ‘Wirral's stone circlees - or were they?’, from Sheetlines 95 (2012)

"I have studied all the large-scale Ordnance Survey maps of Wirral for the period between 1875 to 1899 to see if other ‘stones’ had been included in their cartography. I can report that there were a total of 57 stones identified, including the six at Overchurch. This also included three rows of ‘stones’ located in a field to the east of Fenderlane Farm and south of Fender Lane which contained a total of 37."

"These are a curiosity of a different nature worthy of further research, but twelve of the remaining stones were located not much more than a mile away from Overchurch Hill, as the crow flies, in the area of Arrowe Park."

The curious thing about this collection of twelve ‘stones’ is that they fall closely into two concentric circles as shown in figure 5 of the article. Two of these stones are still to be found in Arrowe Park and are pictured in the article.

From their appearance, these stones are undoubtedly of considerable age and
they have most certainly seen use or misuse over many years.

The full article is linked further up our page.
[ Reply to This ]
    Re: Standing stones in Arrowe Park and to the east of Fenderlane Farm by Andy B on Wednesday, 12 February 2014
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    The possible standing stones in Arrowe Park are at SJ 2701 8591 and pictured on Geograph

    http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2949643
    http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2949675
    http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2949656

    The contributor there seems pretty sure they are old gateposts.
    [ Reply to This ]
      Re: Standing stones in Arrowe Park and to the east of Fenderlane Farm by thedrumdoctor on Tuesday, 25 February 2014
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      It is well known that many Neolithic monuments were pulled down over the centuries and their stones re-used in buildings. The stone in http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2949675 is rougher shape than most Sandstone gateposts we see on Wirral and may well indicate a monolith 'recycled' for use.

      Indeed, I have photographed a gatepost in the Heswall area of Wirral that looks incredibly like a monolith taken by landowners centuries ago when the field systems were being created (possibly during Roman/Viking occupation of Wirral) and used as a gatepost. Maybe I should post it up here?
      [ Reply to This ]
        Re: Standing stones in Arrowe Park and to the east of Fenderlane Farm by Andy B on Friday, 28 February 2014
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        Hello Drumdoctor, that's very interesting, please do post your photo. You can add it to this page for now.
        [ Reply to This ]
          Re: Standing stones in Arrowe Park and to the east of Fenderlane Farm by thedrumdoctor on Thursday, 13 March 2014
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          I will do that. I also found another isolated sandstone monolithic style gatepost in a field which makes no sense as the ONLY sandstone gatepost in a multitude of field systems! I am now starting to wonder if Neolithic marker posts were reused in situ or dug up and moved by later farmers. There's just so little known about the Neolithic landscape of Wirral, but Malcolm McIvor (who I was in touch with yesterday) really has lifted the lid off it for me. He's actually not got an archaeological interest as such, being a cartography buff, but was fascinated by what the old OS maps revealed.
          [ Reply to This ]
            Re: Standing stones in Arrowe Park and to the east of Fenderlane Farm by Anonymous on Wednesday, 08 October 2014
            There is a stone in a wood beside Norwich Drive in Upton. It.s 0.54 miles from the Overchurch site.

            It does have the look of a gatepost, as it has some sort of metal broken off in it. However, looking at the location in old maps, there doesn't seem to be any boundary there.

            This is it - http://tinypic.com/r/14jreo6/8
            [ Reply to This ]
              Re: Standing stones in Arrowe Park and to the east of Fenderlane Farm by thedrumdoctor on Thursday, 10 December 2015
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              Crikey - over a year old this reply and I didn't see it!

              Yes, it does look like a carved gatepost, but if it's a rough cut rather than properly quarried and worked, it is possible that it could be a recycled stone. I'm closely checking out the gateposts I see on my walks around rural Wirral these days to see how well they have been cut. I need a stonemason's opinion really to help me out.
              [ Reply to This ]

Ley hunting with Watkins by Andy B on Wednesday, 12 February 2014
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Another interesting article from Sheetlines, the journal of the Charles Close Society, (otherwise unrelated to this page) is by Ken Hollamby: ‘Ley hunting with Watkins’, Sheetlines 95 (2012)

http://www.charlesclosesociety.org/files/Issue95page43.pdf (PDF file)

http://www.charlesclosesociety.org/articles
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